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Sat, Jan. 10th, 2009, 10:56 am
josiana: Discussion post #1

So. Keeping this in mind, do you think it was intentional that Molina offered Valentin an avocado in the film version?

And, a more predictable question, do you think Valentin and Molina had any actual affection for one another (romantic or otherwise) or was it all manipulation?

Or, alternatively, where and how is the musical flawed? :D

I suppose we’ll try to post these regularly. Or um. Other interesting things. You can offer suggestions too. >_>

I’m very sorry, in advance.

Tue, Jan. 13th, 2009 05:20 pm (UTC)
misatheredpanda

Wasn't there avacado in the book as well? I can't remember exactly and I don't have it with me - but in any case they make a pretty big deal of it in the film, hm? It's Molina's faaavourite. If it was in the novel, then... yes, anything's possible.

I kind of feel like this is too many questions for me to answer all at once, sorry, ahaha. But I was thinking about how seldom Valentin and Molina seem to be alone together in the musical... especially considering that they're alone for most of the novel/play/even the film. Maybe it stands out more when you're just listening to the recording - since they almost never sing together at all - and usually then it's with someone else! I don't really understand this, as it sort of kills the closed-in, intimate effect. Maybe they were afraid we'd get bored otherwise?

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 08:55 pm (UTC)
cherie_morte

No, it's beautiful! It shows that they're letting eachother in to the most precious parts of their lives! The fact that Valentin shares Marta with Molina and Molina shares his mother with Valentin, it's like they're willing to let the other one really get to know him because the people you love is such a major part of the person you are. And by letting the other one see him missing the person so much--they're perfectly comfortable being their most vulnerable in front of each other--this especially shows how real Valentin's affection for Molina is because he's so used to acting macho and as someone who comes from that latin america mmachismo world, let me tell you, those guys do not let you know they're vulnerable.

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:19 pm (UTC)
misatheredpanda

Yes, I think that part is true. I was more thinking of all of the Aurora parts - which I can't help finding a bit inane - or the chorus of other prisoners - kind of taking the focus away from Molina and Valentin, out of the story. Actually, now that I think of it, I'm really not a great fan of all the other prisoners - because it's not really a story about prison itself, it's a story about these two people who are in prison - having all these other people in the background sort of lessens the impact for me. That's the sense I get from it.

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:21 pm (UTC)
cherie_morte

Oh, you know broadway! Atmosphere, atmosphere, atmosphere. I guess you have a point there, but I actually am quite fond of the Aurora nonsense...but that, I happen to know, is rather bad of me as I am taking away my love Molina's moment of glory as the Spider Woman.

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:29 pm (UTC)
misatheredpanda

Yes. I don't know, I guess it's just a bit too much for me! I've not actually seen the musical staged though, I'm sure it might be more effective in person! But yes, that's probably it, I just want my spider!Molina... aw.

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:31 pm (UTC)
cherie_morte

I did see an unfairly good production of it, too. I mean, I have a dvd of the Broadway set up and it's mostly a mess but the theatre I finally saw it in live is a really edgy really brilliant little theatre where I am seeing Les Mis in two weeks and I cannot CONTAIN my enthusiasm.

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:41 pm (UTC)
misatheredpanda

Ah. :DD That's good. Right, what I've seen through.. um.. youtube has not impressed me much, but I definitely think it could be done in a much better way. And omg, I'm jealous. Just saying.

Mon, Jan. 19th, 2009 09:36 am (UTC)
josiana

Omg, I am so sorry for the delay, I had a good reason, I promise. >.>

There is, actually. >_> It's on page 28 in my version.

Oh, it's okay. ^^; You don't really have to answer all of them, I just didn't want people who hadn't seen the movie to feel left out, or anything. And that is a very good point. I don't really understand their reasoning there. I assume they probably did think the audience would get bored, but I could be wrong.

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:00 pm (UTC)
cherie_morte

They loved each other so. much. I don't think any of it was manipulation, which is actually my only complaint about the musical, that they made Valentin seduce Molina to manipulate him into helping. Now, I still think musical!Valentin loves Molina, but I really wish they hadn't gone about it in that way though maybe Valentin really needed to convince himself that he was doing it for that reason and not because he's in lurve with Molina.

In other news, I cannot participate in movie discussions because I am a BAD!FAN! and still haven't seen it.

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:26 pm (UTC)
misatheredpanda

Er, yes, I think that might be my biggest problem with the musical. I find 'Anything For Him' incredibly creepy, I honestly can't listen to it. D: Although I suppose it's more reassuring to think that Valentin was just trying to convince himself otherwise! He more or less redeems himself. But oh man that song scares me.

Of course, I agree that they really truly loved each other very, very much.

Haha, I only saw the film because josiana came to me with the DVD. :D;; Actually, she's responsible for all of this!

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:28 pm (UTC)
cherie_morte

Ah, well, be sure to direct my thanks at her :DDD

I, on the other hand, am blaming Howard McGillin for this nonsense. And the fact that I listened to the musical before reading the book for the fact that I can find so little fault with it.

Aww, I like Anything for Him, I just don't love the context. I'm a known creeper though, so you may be on to something.

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:35 pm (UTC)
misatheredpanda

Aww. And the fact that I read the book before any other version is probably why I'm obnoxiously critical. But hooray, we're all here now. &hearts Proof that KOTSW is amazing, period.

I think it's quite a cool piece actually. I just don't listen to it in English. Ahaha.

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:37 pm (UTC)
cherie_morte

But Howard!Molina. His bee-ot-i-full leetle voice cannot be creepy! Except when he's trying to be creepy, which goes to show what a great actor he is, being able to make that silky mass of orgasmic sound creepy--I'm sorry, did I get carried away a bit?

Woot! KOTSW, FTW!

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:47 pm (UTC)
misatheredpanda

XDDD *cough*Idon'tlikehisversionmuch*cough-hides*

Yay~!

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:48 pm (UTC)
cherie_morte

I EAT YOU!!!!!!

I CHEW YOU UP INTO MUSH, AND I EAT YOU!!!

Ahem, I mean, of course, that you are entitled to your opinion even if said opinion is VERY, VERY WRONG.

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:51 pm (UTC)
misatheredpanda

I know I feel so guilty now. It's nothing personal. Really.

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:52 pm (UTC)
cherie_morte

Well, don't feel guilty silly girl! It's not your fauly if you're a little looney!

Wed, Jan. 14th, 2009 09:53 pm (UTC)
misatheredpanda

XD Thank you. That's comforting.

Mon, Jan. 19th, 2009 08:21 pm (UTC)
josiana

Our thoughts on the matter are eerily similar, then. >_>; The musical's characterization makes me sad sometimes. I really feel they could've done better.

That's okay. ^^ You're not obligated to. And um, I've never seen the musical staged, so I'm equally bad. ;_;

Sun, Apr. 10th, 2011 04:40 pm (UTC)
sikalapp

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sikalapp

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